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	<title>Comments on: PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION: Streetcars making a comeback in American cities but they shouldn’t have left in the first place</title>
	<atom:link href="http://conservationreport.com/2008/08/20/public-transportation-streetcars-making-a-comeback-in-american-cities-but-they-shouldn%e2%80%99t-have-left-in-the-first-place/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://conservationreport.com/2008/08/20/public-transportation-streetcars-making-a-comeback-in-american-cities-but-they-shouldn%e2%80%99t-have-left-in-the-first-place/</link>
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		<title>By: Street Car Come Back! &#124; CanvasWork</title>
		<link>http://conservationreport.com/2008/08/20/public-transportation-streetcars-making-a-comeback-in-american-cities-but-they-shouldn%e2%80%99t-have-left-in-the-first-place/#comment-7166</link>
		<dc:creator>Street Car Come Back! &#124; CanvasWork</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Sep 2009 22:02:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://conservationreport.wordpress.com/?p=1582#comment-7166</guid>
		<description>[...] http://conservationreport.com/2008/08/20/public-transportation-streetcars-making-a-comeback-in-ameri... [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] <a href="http://conservationreport.com/2008/08/20/public-transportation-streetcars-making-a-comeback-in-ameri.." rel="nofollow">http://conservationreport.com/2008/08/20/public-transportation-streetcars-making-a-comeback-in-ameri..</a>. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick R. Sullivan</title>
		<link>http://conservationreport.com/2008/08/20/public-transportation-streetcars-making-a-comeback-in-american-cities-but-they-shouldn%e2%80%99t-have-left-in-the-first-place/#comment-1009</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick R. Sullivan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 18:47:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://conservationreport.wordpress.com/?p=1582#comment-1009</guid>
		<description>Unfortunately, this article is almost 100% urban legend.

Rails were put down in American cities&#039; streets in the 19th century because it made it easier for the horses to pull the cars.  In the early 20th century diesel engines, balloon tires and automatic transmissions made it possible to replace those streetcars with a cheaper to operate alternative; the bus.

And beginning in the 1920s that&#039;s what started happening.  A superior technology replaced an inferior one.  Elementary economics.

The anti-trust case was something of a joke.  In 1937 National City Lines, who&#039;d been buying buses from GM and several other companies, got the idea that they could get money to expand from their suppliers.  They talked GM, Firestone, Standard and Phillips to invest (and offer favorable credit) in NCL, in return for NCL agreeing to buy 85% of their supplies from those investors.

That&#039;s what the anti-trust verdict hinged on.  There was no conspiracy to destroy streetcars.  Here&#039;s a pretty good history of what happened:

http://www.lava.net/cslater/TQOrigin.pdf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unfortunately, this article is almost 100% urban legend.</p>
<p>Rails were put down in American cities&#8217; streets in the 19th century because it made it easier for the horses to pull the cars.  In the early 20th century diesel engines, balloon tires and automatic transmissions made it possible to replace those streetcars with a cheaper to operate alternative; the bus.</p>
<p>And beginning in the 1920s that&#8217;s what started happening.  A superior technology replaced an inferior one.  Elementary economics.</p>
<p>The anti-trust case was something of a joke.  In 1937 National City Lines, who&#8217;d been buying buses from GM and several other companies, got the idea that they could get money to expand from their suppliers.  They talked GM, Firestone, Standard and Phillips to invest (and offer favorable credit) in NCL, in return for NCL agreeing to buy 85% of their supplies from those investors.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s what the anti-trust verdict hinged on.  There was no conspiracy to destroy streetcars.  Here&#8217;s a pretty good history of what happened:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.lava.net/cslater/TQOrigin.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.lava.net/cslater/TQOrigin.pdf</a></p>
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		<title>By: Buck Denton</title>
		<link>http://conservationreport.com/2008/08/20/public-transportation-streetcars-making-a-comeback-in-american-cities-but-they-shouldn%e2%80%99t-have-left-in-the-first-place/#comment-992</link>
		<dc:creator>Buck Denton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 18:55:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://conservationreport.wordpress.com/?p=1582#comment-992</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t see streetcars as being a huge factor that allowed urban sprawl, because urban sprawl is a very broad concept (that includes suburbia for example).  I can grasp streetcars as being a factor that certainly allowed for mobility of populations, but not an overriding factor overall that allowed urban sprawl (therefore it can be a criticism of).  Urban sprawl is still happening without the streetcar (well not so much now, because of the recession).  The conspiracy to kill the streetcar in order to force people to drive more, in addition to our lack of a sustainable public transportation infrastructure have been major blunders that were made, because people can’t grasp sustainability or the obvious fact that we live in a finite world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t see streetcars as being a huge factor that allowed urban sprawl, because urban sprawl is a very broad concept (that includes suburbia for example).  I can grasp streetcars as being a factor that certainly allowed for mobility of populations, but not an overriding factor overall that allowed urban sprawl (therefore it can be a criticism of).  Urban sprawl is still happening without the streetcar (well not so much now, because of the recession).  The conspiracy to kill the streetcar in order to force people to drive more, in addition to our lack of a sustainable public transportation infrastructure have been major blunders that were made, because people can’t grasp sustainability or the obvious fact that we live in a finite world.</p>
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		<title>By: Adron</title>
		<link>http://conservationreport.com/2008/08/20/public-transportation-streetcars-making-a-comeback-in-american-cities-but-they-shouldn%e2%80%99t-have-left-in-the-first-place/#comment-986</link>
		<dc:creator>Adron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 06:30:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://conservationreport.wordpress.com/?p=1582#comment-986</guid>
		<description>Streetcars, keep in mind, were also the first forms of motive transport that allowed suburban sprawl.  Streetcars combined with commuter rail allowed people to expand far past the central city.  So are they really what you want?

I dig them, but we can&#039;t afford them like we used to in the US.  They&#039;re well over 8-10x as much money that it used to cost society to build the tracks and get the cars compared in inflation based dollars.

With the further bankruptcy of the United States Government we&#039;re not getting any closer to being able to have Government built streetcar system everywhere.

We might though, be saved by business and individual interest in them.  But that still begs the question...

How will we pay for them?  No matter how much you act the part of the beggar and demand that transit be free, someone, somewhere has to pay for it.  NOTHING is free.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Streetcars, keep in mind, were also the first forms of motive transport that allowed suburban sprawl.  Streetcars combined with commuter rail allowed people to expand far past the central city.  So are they really what you want?</p>
<p>I dig them, but we can&#8217;t afford them like we used to in the US.  They&#8217;re well over 8-10x as much money that it used to cost society to build the tracks and get the cars compared in inflation based dollars.</p>
<p>With the further bankruptcy of the United States Government we&#8217;re not getting any closer to being able to have Government built streetcar system everywhere.</p>
<p>We might though, be saved by business and individual interest in them.  But that still begs the question&#8230;</p>
<p>How will we pay for them?  No matter how much you act the part of the beggar and demand that transit be free, someone, somewhere has to pay for it.  NOTHING is free.</p>
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		<title>By: Recent Links Tagged With "streetcar" - JabberTags</title>
		<link>http://conservationreport.com/2008/08/20/public-transportation-streetcars-making-a-comeback-in-american-cities-but-they-shouldn%e2%80%99t-have-left-in-the-first-place/#comment-872</link>
		<dc:creator>Recent Links Tagged With "streetcar" - JabberTags</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 11:34:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://conservationreport.wordpress.com/?p=1582#comment-872</guid>
		<description>[...] public links &gt;&gt; streetcar   PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION: Streetcars making a comeback in American ... Saved by btuf74 on Wed 08-10-2008   The National Streetcar Trend Saved by madhurk6 on Sun [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] public links &gt;&gt; streetcar   PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION: Streetcars making a comeback in American &#8230; Saved by btuf74 on Wed 08-10-2008   The National Streetcar Trend Saved by madhurk6 on Sun [...]</p>
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